"Sterilizing immunity is not induced by any of the vaccines so the fact that infection still occurs is not surprising but the immunity that is generated, which includes the non-neutralizing antibodies and T-cells that are less tested for, ensures that disease is minimised."
- #ProfIanJones, Professor of Virology, University of Reading
So if I can still get COVID after being vaccinated, but I just won't get as sick, it follows that I can still spread it after being vaccinated. So getting vaccinated has no significant benefit for the community at large, as is sometimes claimed. That being the case, my only criteria for deciding whether to have the vaccine is the risk of getting badly ill from COVID vs getting ill from adverse vaccine reactions.
So far I'm leaning towards taking my chances with letting my natural immune response do its job. Especially after reading that the Pfizer vaccine being used in NZ may have killed one woman by inducing myocarditis:
So, it's not a vaccine, It's not stopping the spread and lockdowns are pointless.
You are also much more likely to get myocarditis from the virus itself, along with other recorded side effects.
Well here's a review and a write-up:
Estimates would be that you are at least 6-10 times more likely to develop myocarditis in association with the infection. Note than vaccine related cases are much more likely to be properly identified, confirmed with autopsy etc. The clinical outcomes are also much better.
@strypey worth considering what you may be choosing between:
From this article
"the monitoring board found myocarditis probably caused a woman’s death.
The board pointed out, however, that the woman also had other medical issues at the same time, which could have had a role to play.
A recent study of Israel data found the risk of suffering myocarditis after catching Covid-19 far outweighed the risk from vaccination."
> risk of suffering myocarditis after catching Covid-19 far outweighed the risk from vaccination
Even when this data is sorted by age group and other relevant risk factors?
@strypey You may also get hit by car on your way to the vaccination point and back, but what are the chances?
The chances are low, and that's good.
The main argument I see for taking the vax for low risk people (anyone under 40 without comorbidities), is to keep others safe.
However, since you can still transmit the virus when vaxxed (and not less so, since virus load in nose/throat is still the same), the argument looks invalid to me.
Even worse, vaxxed people probably have fewer symptoms, so might be out more and spreading their viral load even more than symptomatic unvaxxed.
That does not follow.
Your condom can break too. Doesn't follow that your natural method of pulling out in time is just as good. R does not need to be 0 for the community to be protected - only less than one.
If this were the case, you should expect alpha variant to incongruously appear increasingly infectious in places with high vaccination rates and fewer restrictions. Looking at the stats for full-genome sequenced cases in Denmark, with all remaining restrictions being lifted this month, that does not appear to be the case.
@strypey False, false, and false.
Your risk of contracting Covid whilst vaccinated is much lower than if unvaccinated.
Your viral load is also likely lower. It is certainly not worse.
Vaccinated individuals are being advised to practice NPI (nonpharmaceutical interventions) to minimise spread risk: masks, social distancing, handwashing.
If you do contract Covid without vaccination, odds of requiring intensive treatment are far higher. This occupies resources which will be unavailable to other patients, whether with Covid or unrelated conditions.
GET THE VACCINATION
He's not talking about having worse covid after vaccine, he's talking about having non-covid side effects from the vaccine. These exist. I've heard that some people got blood clots from it and died, although it's very rare. It all depends on the state of your health before getting vaccinated.
I think most people would benefit from getting vaccinated but it's their own decision.
@strypey "So getting vaccinated has no significant benefit for the community at large"
they significantly reduce your chances of becoming a carrier by making it significantly less likely you'll become infected, even with the delta variant
Not according to the expert quoted in the link you're replying to. See the bit about how "sterilizing immunity is not induced by any of the vaccines". From what I've read the only benefit being claimed for the Pfizer vaccine (the only one in use here) is a reduction in the severity of symptoms for the vaccinated.
@strypey I apologize; I shouldn't have responded in a rush without providing some evidence. This is what I'm basing it on and why (at least in the US) vaccines are being recommended to prevent transmission: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm?s_cid=mm7034e4_w
@strypey I wasn't going to include this because it was written prior to delta, but it's informative when combined with the previously linked study: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/yes-vaccines-block-most-transmission-of-covid-19
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