Anyone know anything about the history of the Participatory Culture Foundation?

It would be intriguing to discuss why they couldn't achieve their founding aspirations with their early free code projects; Downhill Battle, Broadcast Machine, Democracy Player/ Miro, VideoBomb? As well as what is similar and different about the PeerTube project:

@strypey yes i worked with them all the way through. They helped to define the #geekproblem #fashernista and #NGO funding poison.

They did the right projects, the wrong way for years. We (#visionontv) used each of there projects intill they were shut down when the project core foundation funding run out leaveing non community supported spaghetti code that then failed. Next funding round, next right project but enevertly shifted to #NGO funding agender to fail.

@strypey in a worrying way femsoft smells like #PCF though don't have the connections this time to know if they have the same process/outcome.

Do you mean Framasoft? They seem to fund their projects more by crowdfunding than grant writing.

They do go for some grants, I think they got some from NGI. But I think the crowdfunding model is great. The community invests in the project. Which is what we want for decentralized projects. Personally I feel we need a bit of both.

> Personally I feel we need a bit of both.

Agreed, but @Hamishcampbell and I have distinct memories form our days of the problems that can come with too much dependence on grant-giving organizations, particularly the way their agendas can band and distort the direction of projects and developer groups over time.

I think there's a danger of that with any funding. There's a huge difference between crowd funding for things like OTW and decentralised projects/independent media projects. But commercial fund raising/seeking VC funding can put your project really far away from goals as well. I've also had a project where the agenda of someone else derailed the project before funding even happened. Plus when I was younger I was alot more trusting.

@strypey they have the same feeling as #PCF had in its role in the #openweb rember it was not that the tech was bad, it was good, it was the thinking on sustanabilerty and process that had rot at its core. I don't know anufe about Framasoft to have a view. I like #peertube though it has youtube copy limitations that sniff of rot.

@strypey you could say #PCF helped to push the death of the #openweb by takeing up the open tools space and feeding it to #NGO funding agenders.

In a tour of the USA coast to coast of tech/alt media in there high time I visited them in there office and homes in Wooster. Nice people, but #fashernista radical lifestyle vs committed political action.

@strypey could talk about each of there projects/tech as we used them all over the years, with #offlinetv and #visionontv we were on the same mission on europen side of the atlantic... at the time we had come out of the foundation/#NGO funding root that was failing at #undercurrents and were trying the grassroots non funded root - the #indymedia modale.

@strypey They pushed through the foundation #NGO funding root, which of coures was why their projects all failed, just as undercurrents had failed before for us on the same root.

We ended up using their "shiny" tech agen and agen as we did not get traction on our non "shiny" #openweb tech. teach time there tech would fail we had little choice but to jump to there next tech worst tech project.

@strypey When they died they took what reamind of the #openweb media tech world with them. The #dotcons ruled as the #fahernistasters flocked to their "shine".

Not having any alt-tech media tools to work with, and the grassroots root failed, we went back to the foundation funding to try and do this root better. We raise over £120,000 to build out the #visionontv project to combat the "shine" of the #failbook and the lure of the #dotcons.

@strypey our attempt to shift the path of foundation/#NGO agenders failed due to the useal "commonsense" pushing of branding/control. Our experment at #visonontv no matter how hard we tryed failed to mate the grassroots and #NGO agenders to a good outcome.

@strypey I rescued the reserve tech fund from the withered #visionontv project and rebooted the grassroots aproch with the #OMN

Possiblely with the "shine" going off the #dotcons this time it might grow to build a good #openweb outcome... lets see if we can avoid the obvious failers of the past this time... the grassroost aproch has worked twice in the past with the WWW and indymedia.

@onepict @strypey

not even heard of one of their projects, OTOH PeerTube has developed well alongside the Fediverse and I've read a lot about it in both English and French since joining fedi in 2017, and used various instances.

PeerTube still needs work, it does at least deliver videos (with the bonus that you can download them for later watching), I think it is very valuable for educational content (even if it lacks "features" more associated with use of video for entertainment) >>

@onepict @strypey

I don't think PeerTube will (yet) rival Youtube etc as it doesn't attract the young people who think they have a chance at stardom *and* ad revenue, but that may be an advantage rather than a setback.

PeerTube does reminds me of "schools TV" that the teacher would record onto videotape and play back in class at a later time whilst we watched a large screen TV set, a system which worked well in my younger days (those of us who are of a certain age may remember this 😉 )

Oh yes the trolley TV, although it also got pulled out at the end of term into our cafetière when the teachers wanted a break. 😏

@vfrmedia @strypey
Come to think about it, I remember atleast one school program about physics that immediately had us doing experiments /simulations on a BBC2.

> Had not heard of them.

> not even heard of one of their projects

This is precisely my point. Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. PCF were most active in the early 2000s, immediately post-Napster. They had a very similar vision to PeerTube and even used vaguely similar tech; BitTorrent + RSS in their case rather than WebTorrent and ActivityPub. I think it's important to know why such early efforts foundered.

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