I've come across a lot of people in the fediverse who appear to be using Mastodon, but I think would find the privacy model of Diaspora much more to their liking. If Diaspora ever has a change of heart and decides to federate over ActivityPub, and produce some user-friendly web videos etc explaining how the Diaspora UI works, I suspect they would have a huge uptick in users. I can certainly think of people I'd encourage to migrate there.

@strypey Very much agree. FLOSS protocols *need* to have interoperability as first-class citizen built in, unfortunately this just rarely happens at the moment, building more "walled gardens" rather than eliminating them. Looking at #movim here too. 😟

@z428 @strypey I don't really use Movim, but I don't think throwing this shade at it is fair.

For almost a decade, Movim was using the only federated social network standard there was, and the only federated social network specification with more than one production implementation, until the W3C recommended AP in 2018. It was everyone else that wasn't catching on.

I think it can be forgiven for not yet having adopted AP, however cool I think it would be.

@clacke I'm not really offending #movim here. I'm, like, more a bit concerned to see that repeated "reinvent-the-wheel" culture in FLOSS nowadays(?). We're blaming Facebook and Twitter to be "walled gardens" for business and control reasons but fail for ourselves to build solutions that aren't "walled" gardens yet for entirely different reasons... 😟


@z428 @strypey I think the fragmentation is sad, but the huge difference is that the documentation and access necessary to bridge e.g. Movim and Mastodon is out there and anyone is welcome to do it, it's just that nobody has.

They're separate gardens and I'd like to see them grow together, but at least there's no wall of obfuscation, anti-features and terms of service to separate them, I can even follow Movim from Friendica, as it exports feeds.

@clacke Yeah, I see that too - but on the other side, this integration never works "seamless". This bridging and transformation always comes at the price of incompatibilities and limitations - and, like you said, it always initially boils down to "someone needs to do it". Looking at this seems the worst at the moment - in quite some cases (Diaspora <-> AP, Movim <-> AP, ...) nobody does it because people expect each other to do it, leaving it "practically walled gardens" because ...


I agree with @clacke that the federated gardens are not walled, but I agree with @z428 that there's a lack of well-engineered paths between them. In the case of Movim <> Diaspora <> AP, everyone seems to use the cop-out of accusing the others of NIH syndrome, as an excuse for not making any path-building efforts on their end.


@clacke I suspect part of the problem is self-taught developers who have learned a lot of their craft working on that one set of protocols, in that one codebase, in that one language. They have programming skills that dwarf my kindergarten level coding, but they don't yet have the software engineering mastery of the people who built the plumbing of the net in the 1980s/ 90s. So they use scorn towards other projects as a way to avoid admitting their lack of confidence with other toolsets.

@clacke if I'm right about that, then pointing out the UX problem to those project devs and negotiating with them is unlikely to help. Maybe what we need to do is recruit greyhairs of the generation that standardized on TCP/IP and the email protocols, to act as mentors to anyone willing to work on smooth two-lane bridges between any two federated gardens. Whether those mentees are part of either of the projects being bridged, or not.

@strypey Agree without (hopefully) sounding too angry here. This feeds my understanding, however, that in order to substantially change things, we might need to find an idea to drive forth "open"/"libre" alternatives yet in a *professional* way. Does Software Libre, do alternative social networks *have* to be built by hobbyists in their spare time for learning and fun? Or would it at some point require people who do this full-time with a profound set of skills and experience..? 😉


> find an idea to drive forth "open"/"libre" alternatives yet in a *professional* way

You mean like ... Matrix ;)

@clacke 9

software meta, Matrix 

software meta, Matrix 

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