@cowan I haven't studied this in detail, but here are some facts:
1) Reddit has ads. Ads = tracking and data collection.
2) Reddit used to release their server code under a #FreeCode license. Not anymore. I suspect because of the move to ads
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo #AWS is a bad procurement choice, but it's just commodity hosting, not a software dependency. If you dig a bit you'll find that most of the fediverse is ultimately hosted on AWS, as are #Signal, #Wire, and if I remember rightly, #Matrix.org. I'm pretty sure this isn't the worst thing about any given service, Reddit included.
@jcgruenhage If people engineer their service in ways that make it hard to move off AWS, that's a different issue. But AWS can be used just like any other remote hosting vendor, in such a way that servers can be easily moved elsewhere. The #OERu folks have been using it that way for some of their services:
@strypey @cowan @jcgruenhage We seem to have different bones to pick with #Amazon. You seem focused purely on tech freedom, but I see Amazon as a highly unethical company: sweat shops, #climateDenial/#fossilfuels, surveillance (#Alexa/#Ring), etc. So for me, it doesn't matter if AWS is modular & replaceable. I have a problem with anything that helps #Amazon profit.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo I share all these concerns about Amazon (see my comments on the linked page). My point is that being hosted on AWS is a fairly easy problem to solve. Step 1: move your servers to a more ethical hosting provider, like the #CatalystCloud service mentioned at that linked page. Done.
> an ethical user does not use Reddit.
That's like saying an ethical user doesn't use computers, because all hardware manufacturers buy from companies who trade in conflict minerals. It's absurd to hold users responsible for procurement choices they don't control. These issues:
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @jcgruenhage @cowan
Do you know where activism.openworlds.info is hosted? Do you know which datacentres the server(s) are housed in? Do you know who supplies their bandwidth, or their electricity? Who handles their security, or their insurance? Do you know where the domain is registered? Do you know which parent companies owns all those companies, and who owns those parent companies? Are you responsible for all their ethical violations because you use that instance?
@jcgruenhage @cowan @strypey So let's break down your hypothetical cases into two groups: evils that users are aware of and those that users are not. It would be absurd to hold someone responsible for accidentally supporting wrongdoing that they are unaware of. Although we could fault ppl for being ignorant to some extent but let's not get too complicated.
@strypey @cowan @jcgruenhage W.r.t the case of awareness, of course you have an ethical duty to avoid supporting what you yourself deem unethical, if you intend to be ethical. I actually seek out knowledge to some extent to ensure that I'm not supporting any obvious evils. Before opening an acct at activism.openworlds.info, I checked to ensure they are not hosted by #AWS & that they do not use #CloudFlare.
@jcgruenhage @cowan @strypey There's a finite amount of ethical research one can do.. if I probe one supplier that's less time to probe another. So there's a diminishing return if I were to inspect the utility suppliers of a website prior to using it, but checking to see if they are directly #AWS-hosted is trivial & a #boycott on #Amazon is very worthwhile in light of the great social harm that corp pushes.
@strypey @cowan @jcgruenhage I should say my first reply to you was to pile on more #Reddit wrongdoing. But I probably shouldn't have said my issues were "bigger". It's of course for each user to decide the weight of an issue. I also oppose ads, targeted & untargeted, but I find it more critical to condemn #Amazon b/c it has a huge negative impact on the world.
@jcgruenhage @cowan @strypey Consider the hypothetical case where someone has total information awareness, so they knew of the wrongdoing of the whole supply chain of every supplier to exist. It would actually work against your ethics to #boycott all b/c you'd fail to support the competitor of the worst players. So in the end ethical consumption is relative.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo thanks for the nuanced reply. As you acknowledge, it's more complex than 'an ethical user does not use X'. We all choose our compromises, in situations of limited information, limited freedom of action, and limited power to influence larger institutional arrangements. One useful question to ask is; which compromises are ruinous?
@cowan @jcgruenhage @strypey I am making a compromise. I occasionally use #Reddit to link a post on #Lemmy. This keeps the value added to Reddit somewhat minimal (content is only a link) & in exchange Reddit users become exposed to Lemmy. Doing that forever would perhaps be a ruinous compromise in the long term, b/c Redditers would still be in the loop.
@strypey @jcgruenhage @cowan So after Lemmy is sufficiently populated I would quit Reddit entirely. This avoids the ruinous compromise. I think RMS also takes a staged approach in the #freesoftware mission. The #xr movement does this as well, b/c it's a hard sell to ask moderates to make big lifestyle changes all at once.
a) make their autonomous tools (website, Discourse forum etc) more discoverable to the huge pool of users who are already on Reddit
b) piggyback on the SEO of Reddit and it's privileged place in search engine results
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