what we are building here, together, is important. the fediverse is ultimately a fight for the future. a future free of proprietary surveillance platforms subcontracting for tyranny. we must keep fighting this fight, we musn't give up. there's too much to lose.
@kaniini as of now, bots have never been more annoying and scraping tools are at the peak of their efficiency on a decentralized network. The Fediverse works in a utopic universe. Nobody really implemented ways to handle situation, only to hide or kill them. There is a lot of work to do before the future will be usable.
@hellpie yes, but that doesn't mean that we quit. that means we work together to overcome these problems.
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@kaniini I can't help but notice these talking points coming up repeatedly, about the existing *public* not protecting privacy. What part of public are people not getting? If folks want fully private federated messaging, they can use networks running , , , with , or with encryption turned on. can't do private, and although can, nobody has implemented it well yet, and its meaningless without encryption ().
@hellpie

@strypey @hellpie audience restriction is not about privacy of message contents. it is possible to have systems (e-mail) that provide useful access controls without E2EE. different tools for different purposes.

@kaniini fair point. But message restriction doesn't address the data mining concerns these talking points are bringing up, especially when they don't reliably restrict messages yet (ie DMs sent to instances running software other than Mastodon/Pleroma being posted publicly like any other post).
@hellpie

@strypey @kaniini at the end of the day, my concern with the Fediverse, like any "open source" service aimed at "freedom" born in the past few years is that it uses a lot of fancy words to describe itself but not a single word feels aimed at describing its users. Software is designed for the developers, it's tested for the servers and it's published for the network, the user is hardly ever part of the concerns software needs to address. The question is simple: is it secure? Then you get jargon that even as a developer I don't care about. As a user, at that point the answer is no, it's not secure because I can't understand the answer. The same goes for all basic questions: is it usable? I don't care if I have 20 clients with dumb names, if there are that many I'm just going to assume that it's not usable unless I spend enough time to go through them all and find the one that is. This is the state of the Fediverse now. The state Gargron never wanted to end up into but he's not a designer and Mastodon looks like shit, he's not an engineer and the network is a colander of issues, he's not a social person and the selling points keep using that jargon. The Fediverse is aimed at the servers that run it not at the users that so loudly every software engineer claims the network deserves, and if it was aimed at the users then nobody would say "a future free of proprietary [...] platforms" because that's aiming at improving the platforms, not the users, which haven't been mentioned once in most speeches regarding the Fediverse. It's all about freedom but only of the code.

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@kaniini funny, I remember that meme generator happening well before the current iteration of , and happening after that. Is my memory failing me? Or do you mean that was the genesis of the idea for Pleroma, but the project itself was launched later?
@hellpie

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fediverse meta 

@hellpie
When i think open source i think free software not free as in beer but free as in free speech
@strypey @kaniini

@kaniini @strypey @hellpie I think fundamentally if you don't want your information scraped you don't put it on the fediverse and you definitely don't use your real name

@kaniini @strypey @hellpie This does exist on the fediverse, since you can post to followers or an unlisted post.

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