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I'm so sick of websites websites refusing to even display text and images if I don't agree to run their proprietary Javascript on my computer. Isn't it time that browsers started treating requests to run Javascript like requests to use the mic or camera, and asked the user before allowing them? Ideally with crowdsourced info about what the scripts are, and what they do? In other words, make something like a standard part of browsers.

@strypey Be careful what you ask for: that would kill the peer web before it started. JavaScript on the client isn’t the enemy. Business logic on the server is the enemy.

@aral @strypey I don't begrudge you for using the expedient tools of today, but I must request stand in the way of developments that NEED to happen to ensure all the software we run is libre. So we can do better than the whack-a-mole efforts like your Better (which I really appreciate, btw, thank you!).

Apple and Microsoft already learnt their lesson about auto-executing CD software, but that vulnerability only moved to The Web.

@aral @strypey I agree strongly with you that logic must be clientside.

I disagree that The Web is a good tool for that. It has it's place, but we really need to pushing for libre native apps following open standards.

And browsers should assist with that be pointing people towards the apps they need to use those standards securely. I've implemented that for Odysseus.

@alcinnz @strypey Agree. But we need untrusted relay nodes to guarantee findability and availability to match expectations of the levels possible in centralised systems if we want to build a bridge from here to there. We can shed those training wheels once there are enough nodes. But without them we won’t get adoption.

@aral @strypey I do not see how these untrusted relay nodes (which yes, we do need), but I do not see how that relates to the argument we are having. Why can't we be distributing native apps for each platform?

smashingmagazine.com/2012/06/m

@alcinnz @aral @strypey It's also important to distinguish between web apps and web pages.

A website for a restaurant is not an app. It doesn't need Javascript. I'm disinclined to enable JS for it just to see their phone number.

A website that is acting as a Matrix client? That's acting as an *app*, and I'm more inclined to enable JS. Of course it can run code, just as I would allow a native app to do.

(My *ideal* would be sandboxed native apps shipped with a standard package manager.)

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@varx
> My *ideal* would be sandboxed native apps shipped with a standard package manager.

Isn't that basically what are?
@alcinnz @aral

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