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I'm so sick of websites websites refusing to even display text and images if I don't agree to run their proprietary Javascript on my computer. Isn't it time that browsers started treating requests to run Javascript like requests to use the mic or camera, and asked the user before allowing them? Ideally with crowdsourced info about what the scripts are, and what they do? In other words, make something like a standard part of browsers.

@strypey Be careful what you ask for: that would kill the peer web before it started. JavaScript on the client isn’t the enemy. Business logic on the server is the enemy.

@aral @strypey I don't begrudge you for using the expedient tools of today, but I must request stand in the way of developments that NEED to happen to ensure all the software we run is libre. So we can do better than the whack-a-mole efforts like your Better (which I really appreciate, btw, thank you!).

Apple and Microsoft already learnt their lesson about auto-executing CD software, but that vulnerability only moved to The Web.

@aral @strypey I agree strongly with you that logic must be clientside.

I disagree that The Web is a good tool for that. It has it's place, but we really need to pushing for libre native apps following open standards.

And browsers should assist with that be pointing people towards the apps they need to use those standards securely. I've implemented that for Odysseus.

@alcinnz @strypey Agree. But we need untrusted relay nodes to guarantee findability and availability to match expectations of the levels possible in centralised systems if we want to build a bridge from here to there. We can shed those training wheels once there are enough nodes. But without them we won’t get adoption.

@aral @strypey I do not see how these untrusted relay nodes (which yes, we do need), but I do not see how that relates to the argument we are having. Why can't we be distributing native apps for each platform?

smashingmagazine.com/2012/06/m

@alcinnz @strypey I agree. But I don’t have the resources to do so. So I’m starting with an offline browser app first and then hopefully we’ll inspire others to build native apps. But there is no one size fits all; a plurality of approaches and initiatives can only make us stronger.

@aral
Why should there be a "client" if the logic is entirely on the client side? We can just turn to P2P networking and destroy the idea of "servers"
@strypey @alcinnz
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@VeintePesos
> We can just turn to P2P networking and destroy the idea of "servers"

I like this idea politically. But after 20 years of waiting, I've yet to see a single piece of network software that can work entirely , without supernodes of any kind for bootstrapping, relay, ID mapping etc. Can you think of one? needs both trackers and search sites to be useful. Even need "miners", which are supernodes, not pure P2P.
@buoyantair @aral @alcinnz

Having said that, I agree that supernodes don't have to be as centralized as servers. The takes this one step, by connecting standard servers. The next step might be to disaggregate server functions, with some specializing in authentication, or media storage, or search, and so on. But we can't get rid of the concept of servers entirely without giving every device a persistent IP address (), and creating a decentralized replacement for .
@VeintePesos @buoyantair @aral @alcinnz

@buoyantair I don't know enough about the network topology of to be sure, but from what I've learnt so far, it seems unlikely to be able to work on a large scale without a much greater use of "pubs" and other such supernodes. I don't see that as a problem (see the second post). To me, it just means that server/client and P2P are two ends of a spectrum, rather than a hard dichotomy, and that successful future network tech will involve hybrids of the two.
@alcinnz @aral @VeintePesos

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