I've reported 's lack of server>server federation as an issue, and explained how it could benefit them as a company. I mentioned that there might be hackers out there willing to help them make it happen. Let's see what they say:

... and in , not only confirms they're working on secure, federated chat, but will be part of the protocol being standardized at the :
"During this interim the proposal was made to include federation more strongly in the design considerations and the proposal was adopted as a future goal for MLS. Wire's goal has always been to achieve federation between different compatible backends and this brings us one step closer to that goal!"


The team are open to the idea of using for federation between instances of the Wire server:
"Please feel free to use this issue to post links / papers / reading material of any kind that might help us make a more informed decision"

@strypey Wire is open source and planning federation?I thought it was proprietary.Maybe I'll give it a try when federation is ready.

@nipos Not only is Wire , but under licenses (a mix of GPL and AGPL depending on the component). Federation could be a ways down the track, but it's already an improvement on popular encrypted chat apps like (non-free and owned by FB), (non-free and owned by MS), (proprietary server), or , which has no desktop or web clients, and its developers are totally against , and against federation on principle:

@strypey Thanks,but I already know that the four other messengers totally suck.Currently I'm only using Matrix and Jabber,both decentralized and open source.But as I already said I may give Wire a try now.I thought it was closed source.I read that multiple times in the past.

@nipos Wire was proprietary for the first 4-5 years of development. They released the code for their clients in 2016:

... and then the server in 2017.

@erAck my apologies, that's true. But my understanding is that like the desktop clients, Signal's don't work unless the user first registers an account using one of the mobile apps, which requires giving your cell phone number. No thanks. There's an extensive discussion here about Signal's failings as a privacy protection tool:

@erAck @nipos @strypey ive heard its buggy as hell though, furthermore its an electron app

I haven't had any problems so far (using it mostly on Debian, rarely on Fedora), furthermore I run it in a firejail sandbox.
@strypey @nipos

@erAck @nipos @strypey its still electron, probably uses a shitload of ram more than it needs
@erAck @nipos @strypey youre blessed with the ability not to care

on a system like mine, web browser and a video game will take up over half of my ram alone, so i have to compromise on what i run

is an app too. I still find it better than using the web app. When I care a lot more about resource usage than (eg when recording a podcast with a remote co-host or guest) I use . It would be cool if someone forked the Mumble clients and replaced the -a-like UI with an IM one.
@nipos @erAck

On a related note, I'd also be curious to test a fork using a widget for voice conferences instead of .
@wowaname @nipos @erAck

@strypey @nipos

Well, they got a point there and also shown the problem with fedreated system :blobthinkingeyes:

the blog post about federation, like Signal apologetics in general, is misleading in a whole bunch of ways that have been discussed exhaustively on the fediverse and elsewhere on the web. See:

@chebra it's one of the downsides of software being developed by a business, with business goals. Getting a app into users is unlikely to bring in many paying users, so it's never going to a priority for the core team. They would merge patches to make it happen, eventually, but only if the community generates them and convinces the Wire team they don't compromise security or for paying users.

@chebra OTOH if a consortium of enterprise teams who want to do their work using software only said they'd become paying users if the app could be installed from , then it would become a business goal as well as a technical nice-to-have.

Thanks for bringing the renewed discussion to my attention! I left quite a big comment addressing some of the new concerns. I really hope #Wire decides to federate using #XMPP. I'd have a good client/server combo to suggest to my non-technical friends.

@stevenroose ironically, I'm only indirectly responsible for this. My post from when you originally pointed me at that issue keeps getting discovered and boosted every few weeks, like a gift that keeps on giving ;)

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