@bhaugen @KevinMarks @cwebber the main difference is that #IndieWeb (as I understand it) is designed around the idea of everyone having a self-hosted homepage, which implements a bunch of simple-as-possible protocols, allowing those homepages to form a social network. Obviously quite different from the assumptions behind AP (a federation of servers, each with one or more users, each with a web or native client) or #SSB (a #P2P network of native clients that may have intermittent net access)
@strypey @bhaugen @KevinMarks @cwebber Not an expert but I don't think it's *necessarily* (although very common) about being self-hosted, it's about owning your identity and your data. e.g. https://micro.blog provides hosted services that adhere to indieweb protocols (and principles).
In some ways its closer to Hubzilla than Mastodon, IMO.
The reason I mention that (and hope I'm correct in saying so) is that I think it's vital that indieweb does not expect everyone will self-host.
@cwebber @neil @bhaugen @KevinMarks yeah, with all due respect to the IndieWeb folks, it kind of reminds me of those people who are super passionate about growing their own organic veges, or knitting cardigans, or restoring old cars, and don't seem to grasp that this is much harder and less appealing for other people than it is for them. Also that for some people, it's as achievable as performing your own brain surgery.
@neil @cwebber @bhaugen @KevinMarks this is some really good strategic thinking. But is still assumes that the end of goal is 'everyone is a commune of 1'. To me, projects like #RiseUp, #FramaSoft,#Disroot, and many others demonstrate that its possible to 'own your own data' collectively, as well as individually.
The reason we are going with personal ActivityPubs (as well as organizational ActivityPubs) is that an individual (me, for example) can participate and federate with many organizations and other individuals.
Any or all of those could be hosted by cooperatives.
But the structure matches what we see happening around us.
@bhaugen @neil @cwebber @KevinMarks sure, I am in no way opposed to individual instances. But I'm thinking about my Mum as a potential user, or even my brothers and sisters. I just can't imagine a time that they're ever going to be willing to admin their own instance. Some of them don't even admin their own devices, after years of owning computers of various kinds ;)
@mike_hales @bhaugen @neil @cwebber @KevinMarks I can definitely envision a time when installing a server app on a GNU/Linux system is as easy as installing an end-user app, or indeed installing a GNU/Linux system itself. Both of these used to require wizard-level skills, but lots of work has been by done by distros to make it easier and easier. This is an important goal. But however easy it becomes, some people just won't do it. I don't know why, but that's my experience.
A half-serious 'why' . . I 🧡 'my' MacOS UX 25 yr deep and left Windows-ish UIs just as soon as I could, never to willingly return. Until open apps reliably present with equivalent 'architectural' form, hidden machinery and graphic-design literacy (Jobs legacy?!) I'll find it hard to commit - even knowing AP is underneath and P2P is at stake. Git-style UI is a bit Bauhaus and puritan for me? Aesthetics over efficiency? O dear 🙄 End of confession 😉
@bhaugen @neil @cwebber @KevinMarks