@bhaugen @KevinMarks @cwebber the main difference is that #IndieWeb (as I understand it) is designed around the idea of everyone having a self-hosted homepage, which implements a bunch of simple-as-possible protocols, allowing those homepages to form a social network. Obviously quite different from the assumptions behind AP (a federation of servers, each with one or more users, each with a web or native client) or #SSB (a #P2P network of native clients that may have intermittent net access)
@strypey @bhaugen @KevinMarks @cwebber Not an expert but I don't think it's *necessarily* (although very common) about being self-hosted, it's about owning your identity and your data. e.g. https://micro.blog provides hosted services that adhere to indieweb protocols (and principles).
In some ways its closer to Hubzilla than Mastodon, IMO.
The reason I mention that (and hope I'm correct in saying so) is that I think it's vital that indieweb does not expect everyone will self-host.
@cwebber @strypey @neil @bhaugen I don't think we disagree about goals, but about methods to some extent. Indieweb was founded after frustration with large complex federation efforts aimed at big companies, and refocusing on web-centric models that are small and simple to implement.
OStatus has a lot of these complexities included (webfinger and salmon being the most egregious). https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/AccountDiscovery has some of this.
Kevin, can you federate with all of the people in this message from an indie.web place-to-stand?
If not, what would it take to be able to do that?
Or conversely, what would it take for eg a one-person ActivityPub (which I got) to be able to federate with you communing from an indie.web place?
(Was that all clear?)
It should be possible for you to subscribe to an indieweb site via atom and webpub, but mastodon wants a lot of webfinger wrangling to do that.
@jgmac1106 this blog piece and its comment thread has some useful commentary on the various ideas about what 'decentralized' can mean:
@strypey Dietrich is awesome. I have been playing with Dat and beaker browser.
Though my definition of decentralized would include a bunch folks interacting from their own websites and readers without ever touching another service
@jgmac1106 as I said in my comment on that article, the word "decentralized" has two standard definitions, one from politics, from from networking, and neither of them are the one you are proposing. It's fine to have your own non-standard definition, but if you don't give your personal definition the fist time you use the word in a conversation, don't be surprised if it confuses people ;)
@strypey and as I said I am hear to learn all the definitions so thanks for the patience and explanations
@strypey I say it with love. I am a long time Mozilla contributor... But turning my attention to an open source project with no bosses or boards has been heavenly
@jgmac1106 what project are you working on now?
@jgmac1106 most people think of the net as decentralized, which it is. But although TCP/IP was designed to allow a #P2P mesh network, most of us still connect via an ISP. So the ISPs form a #P2P mesh, but when you look at the net as a whole, including the ISPs' customers, it's a federated network. But it would only be centralized if all ISPs has to connect to a single, central choke point, instead of forming a #P2P mesh with each other.
@strypey that being said I don't trust any product from Mozilla beyond Firefox. They all eventually get shut down by some higher up, when soft money gets cut off, or when the one person stewarding the project moves on