I quit.

It's very painful to see how #SocialCoop has turned out, and how we have let people down.

I've lost hope that this group's overall makeup and values are suited to fostering a healthy community. I am leaving the instance and other discussion groups, and asking that the tech team migrate the instance off of the servers I was providing (before end of Sept).

You can find me at @mayel

@mayel I'm aware I've been AFK for most of the last 2 months, but this seems very sudden. What happened? Is there a blog post or discussion thread somewhere you can point me at to help me understand how it came to this?


It's a long story. There's no recap post that I'm aware of, sorry (and I'm too burnt out to finish writing my draft at the moment)...
@strypey @mayel I dont disagree per say, although I'll note there needs to be a clear definition of what constitutes hate speech.

It does you no good, if trans women are in danger of harassment, and white straight men are able to misuse hate speech to further their very pro establishment agenda.

There is this guy with a frog avatar on wattpad, that basically goes around pointing his finger about PC orthodoxy, despite seemingly doing everything that goes against simply treating everyone like human beings.

@LWFlouisa this is why I don't buy into the whole "hate speech" meme. However you define it, it can be gamed to silence people challenging power (eg critics of Israeli military policy being accused of "antisemitism"). I find it more useful to make rules that users must treat others with respect and compassion, and have mods who are trusted by the majority of users they moderate to a) know the different between respectful and disrespectful, and b) be respectful.

@strypey I mean I'm a trans woman, and I never deliberately been "politically incorrect." I'm not even sure how that' even possible.

@LWFlouisa I don't think it's possible to *be* "politically incorrect", it's more an evaluation of the correctness of what you *say* according to whatever is the consensus reality of the community within which you say it. Eg if, while attending a funeral at my Auntie's hyper-conservative church, I'd loudly stated that a fetus is part of a woman's body and she has the same right to terminate it as she does to do the same to a tumour, that would be "politically incorrect" in that social context.

@LWFlouisa see, it's not that what I'm saying is *wrong*. It's an opinion about ethics, which are inherently subjective. It's that in that social environment it's *believed* to be wrong by more people than would agree with it, thus *politically* incorrect. In a left-leaning political party (these days), it would be politically correct.

@LWFlouisa so despite what some people believe, enforcing political correctness has *zero* to do with achieving equality or better outcomes for members of marginalized subcultures. Instead, PC is all about policing echo chambers, by dogpiling anyone who openly dissents from the majority view. It's anti-democratic and regressive. It hurts equality, by discouraging the nuanced discussion and teaching moments necessary to achieve real change in people's *behaviour*.

@strypey That would explain why its so hard to communicate my ideas as a Francophile (loving of French things and culture) that also likes Crypto-Left and Open Software Initiatives.

@LWFlouisa yup, in a highly PC environment, people with diverse interests and the courage of our convictions often find ourselves saying things that are not PC in a given subculture, often without even realizing that the norms there on that point are different from other subcultures we hang out in.

@strypey Well its weird, I've said some accidentally insensitive things about the French.

And yet, despite this, because they just sort of know the real me, so to speak. It's like they laugh about it, and we end up becoming friends.

French are kind of awesome.
@strypey A lot of them are kind of like how people stereotype about New Zealand.
@strypey Its like New Zealand, but very Roman and Catholic.

@LWFlouisa parts of NZ are very Roman and Catholic too ;) Although other parts are staunchly CoE (particularly Canterbury), Otago is much more Presbyterian (being originally a Scottish colony), Wellington is pretty secular overall (web search "barefoot bishop"), and Auckland is a melting pot of religions (christian and otherwise).

@strypey Yea in the US I grew up very Presbyrtarian.

I just mean most New Zealanders and French people seem like they'd get along great.

Or maybe that Fediverse jut does that to you.

@LWFlouisa I always get along well with French people, but I've only ever met them in NZ, and mostly at festivals and rainbow gatherings and other hippyish events, where I tend to get along with most people.

@strypey Maybe its the same on the Fediverse as well.

In Centralized they're still very ... anti-hate speech oriented. In the weirdest kind of way:

Marginalizing people who have liberal view.

Very ... I hate to say this ... France is almost a 51st state on Twitter.

@LWFlouisa well, this is the same country where people think it's ok to legislate that some people can't wear the style of clothing they consider sufficiently modest, ie ankle length skirt - check. Turtle neck that goes down to the wrists - check. Swimware that covers more than a one-piece - baaaaaaah! No. Veil that covers the hair or face - baaaaaaah! No. Imagine a law that said christian matrons in their 50s had to wear mini-skirts ...

@LWFlouisa intriguing, NZ only abolished the death penalty a few decades ago too. Treason was still a hanging offence until 1989!

@strypey I think its less the latest, and more what was used, and how much of the public (in France) seems fine with resurrecting the bladed implement. (Wikipedia says somewhere near 56 percent.)

I wrote a novella about Marine La Pen's france, then taking over the US, and created a Neo-Western state where the US uses the Guillotine like old cowboys used the noose.
@strypey Which seems to contrast with how much French people I know that are anti-death penalty.

@LWFlouisa same in NZ, although obviously my social circle is going to tend to exclude people who are in favour of the state killing people ;) Maybe it's just another example of the way legislation lags behind (sometimes *far* behind) the progression of public debate? As it does with drug law reform, for example.

@strypey What is the difference between Australian and New Zealanders?

This one legit wants me to believe I'm a racist simply because I like French people for their accent and culture.

@LWFlouisa Australia is a spectacularly proto-fascist country, with functioning concentration camps for immigrants, and an ever-expanding surveillance state. People from there are either unusually scornful about people who aren't "white", or unusually sensitive about anything they perceive as racism.

@strypey Wow, that sounds very veyr devided.

New Zealand sounds great in comparison.

Watched this great tiny house show featuring lesbians.

@LWFlouisa was that the Topp Twins? They are an institution here. They've been popular since the 1980s or longer, and AFAIK they have been out as lesbians the whole time. Which is interesting an NZ only legalized (male) homosexuality in 1986. It's funny, the 1980s were a *very* socially progressive decade in NZ, but at the same time economically regressive, the beginning of the dismantling of the social safety net we'd spent generations building up, and the mass privatization of public commons.

@strypey Topp Twin?

I wouldn't know, never been to New Zealand.

You do make it sounds nice though.

@LWFlouisa if you replace the "youtube.com" with "invido.us" in a YT URL, you can share a video with people without exposing them to goOgle JS, eg:

@strypey Cool, will try that.

Can you download videos too? That was my beef about hooktube.

@LWFlouisa don't think so. I think allowing downloads was one of the things that got in trouble with YT. You know about -dl?

@strypey What's the Wilson score?

Is that a ranking on how big a cock the video gives you?O_o
@strypey Very nice, youtube-dl it is.

Will try to only show it through invidio.
@strypey That was one issue about my ex: she was dead set in ruling out France being homophobic/transphobic in any way.

Even liberal countries can have conservative elements.
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