@strypey Well, I would say most people who want equality don't really care about a political victory, so you are talking about a specific demographic.

And it's interesting that they world 'hysterical' is used as inequality such as sexism has some very real consequences for it's victims. It's like saying a drowning person is hysterical when talking about water.

The 'damage' that is caused by hurting ones feelings is insignificant to the damage bigotry continues to cause.

@Are0h you've seriously never come across anyone who's been "hysterical" in their advocacy for something? Maybe from over-enthusiasm, or maybe from unresolved mental health issues, or maybe even because they're not actually on the side of the cause they are "advocating" for (#AgentsProvocateur are a thing)? Lucky you.

@strypey Of course I have, but in terms of inequality and how it affects people's lives, I can understand why people get emotional about it. I wouldn't call that hysterical.

You are free to speculate on whatever that is, but in my experience it's typically not any of those things. The labels you use are usually the markers of people that choose to not understand the problem.

And I don't believe in luck.

@Are0h you are free to make whatever assumptions you like about my motives. I'm not responsible for those.

@strypey Agreed. I just listen to what people say and how they say it.

That's usually all it takes to see the context they are speaking from.

@Are0h this seems to be a popular story. Again, I think problems endemic to *corporate* culture are being blamed on hacker culture. Some people are putting a lot of effort into trying to change corporate tech culture, and good on them. My solution is for hackers to take tech back from corporations. As the USAmerican exceptionalism *yawn*. Your country is not the world (thankfully). Love from China.

@strypey You can think whatever you like, but the reality is that tech cultures, no matter corporate or independent do not operate in a vacuum. They are enabled by the societies and cultures they inhabit. If you want to parse that out for the sake of your point, cool, but in terms of talking about the culture itself, both are at play wether you want to acknowledge it or not.

LOL, no one said anything about the US being the world. The point is irrelevant.

@Are0h
"no one said anything about the US being the world"

You said:
"The culture in tech of white folks fighting to keep it a white male bastion is a microcosm of the overall culture in the States to the unearned advantage of whiteness in place."

This comment assumes that #hacker culture, and internet culture in general, although global, is a "microcosm of the overall culture in the States". Thus my reply.

@strypey Nah, you're _assuming_ that's what it means for the same of your reply. Ha, in no way does that statement remotely imply the States represents the planet.

It is clearly talking about culture in the States, which is the perspective I usually speak from.

Any other inference you get from it is one you have imagined.

@Are0h also this:
"The culture in tech of white folks fighting to keep it a white male bastion"
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
As I said, I accept that there are some individuals for whom this is a goal. Pidgeon-holing people as suspected bigots if they express any scepticism whatsoever about *strategy* and *tactics* proposed for improving inclusion, is intellectually lazy.

@Are0h After all, how do I prove I'm not a witch?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-

@strypey LOL, no one said you were 'witch'.

That's the part you seem to keep missing for whatever reason.

@Are0h look, we seem to have got off on the wrong foot here. Which is a shame, since you've raised some really crucial issues for how we increase the overlap between the #SoftwareFreedom and #PeerProduction movements, and other activists movements concerned with #HumanRights, #Sustainability, #EconomicDemocracy and so on, and make sure that overlap is mutually beneficial. My intention was to engage constructively, but I seem to got a bit distracted.

@Are0h is it ok if we back up, and have another go at this, hopefully without raising each other's hackles? :-&

@strypey *shrugs* You can call it whatever makes you feel better, but I don't 'pidgeon hole' anyone. I have no need to do that because culture is what it is.

I have no issue with one's skepticism, but it's not hard to tell where that comes from in a society that favors keeping inequality in place.

I would say ignoring that context to perform remaining objective is lazy. At best.

It just is what it is, dude. When people show me what they are, I believe them. Simple.