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I really wish that NZ's Green party would strike a blow against US corporate corruption & political interference by refusing to use that digital blight, NationBuilder, for all of its political communication activities. Their continued use of it makes them hard to support - it makes them just the same as all the other ethically compromised parties in NZ (i.e. all of them).

@lightweight If you really support their policies you could join the party and try and change that.

@ericireland yeah, tricky one as I'm not convinced they're salvageable... I've maintained my political independence (in constant hope that someone worthy of support would emerge) but I have in past been asked to advise the Greens, and they've never done any of the things I suggested.

@ericireland to be clear, I don't support many of their policies, but I do support nearly all of their principles (which they consistently fail to convert into similarly admirable policies)...

@lightweight When I was in their IT team (10 years ago) we used Drupal with CiviCRM instead. We put considerable effort (about 5 years) into building community and CRM features for our membership.

Large and complex codebase, tiny team, half volunteers, not much buy-in from management. Recipe for burnout. We gave the FOSS option a really good go, trust me.

For orgs with few resources and low interest in tech, I can understand why they take the easy road.

@rimu Yeah, I know a lot of the folks involved. But, to be a different political force, you have to do things differently. And the Greens aren't different enough to win my support as a volunteer or party member. Their leaders haven't exhibited sufficient vision. Very sad, because they're the only ones even close to having the right principles.

@rimu I'm sorry your contributions (and those of others we know in common) weren't appreciated. Again, very sad.

@lightweight Yes, their use of NB, zoom, google, blackbaud etc is not aligned with their own policy in this area (replace Gov with Party):

"⋯ should encourage development, maintenance, and ownership of ICT systems by New Zealand companies.
⋯procurement should support locally developed software with consideration to the wider economic benefits to the New Zealand ICT sector.
⋯should encourage the use of Free and Open Source Software
"

greens.org.nz/digital_policy

@bigblen @lightweight ... although reading their 'policy' it's clear they show a very odd understanding understanding of what FOSS is. So on that point they may not even be aware of what they're doing.

@duncan_lithgow @bigblen yes, I have a bit of understanding of that situation - Labour (when Claire Curran was still involved) has a similarly strange position, mostly because they took recommendations I made to them and had their policy wonks (with 0 understanding of IT) 'dress them up' a bit. Looks like what happened there, too.

@bigblen @lightweight Policy for govt and internal IT policy for a small non-profit volunteer org can be different.

The Green Party are interested in these things:

greens.org.nz/charter

greens.org.nz/our_values

...so they go to great pains to ensure involvement of minorities, offset their flights, consensus, inclusive policy dev process, etc etc. They're a political party, not an IT company.

Even so, you won't find a more FOSS-friendly policy among a 5+% party.

@rimu @bigblen the way I see it is that it only takes one or two people to revolutionise tech within an organisation, and only one org doing it to demonstrate to everyone that a) it's possible and it works bloody brilliantly, and b) that everyone else is unwittingly creating existential risks for themselves and ceding their organisational sovereignty (and in the case of gov'ts, *national sovereignty*).

@lightweight "just the same as" is a bit harsh. It politics and politicians and their parties have flaws. But not showing leadership on digital sovereignty - while appearing to understand there is a problem - is not the same as happily throwing us all under the survilance capitalusm bus. Comments like yours reinforce voter apathy.

@duncan_lithgow I agree is harsh, but I think it's an important wakeup call. Tech matters more and more to everyday people and to national sovereignty and decolonisation. The Greens have long been the great hope for people like me, but they've consistently disappointed me by not following their excellent principled policy statements with actual policy proposals and internal practice (namely using tech corresponding to their explicitly stated preferences).

@duncan_lithgow The Greens are dealing with an unfortunate cognitive dissonance: corporations are our primary adversary in arresting the impending climate/biodiversity disaster. But they also currently concentrate weath & power, controlling (corrupt) politics/policy (e.g. Labour's adoption of the CPTPPA after campaigning against it). I see corporate apologists as betrayers of Green values. I think other Green supporters feel that way too, even if they don't quite realise why.

@lightweight it's sad there is no strongly left wing party in nz. Back in the day when I worked with the Alliance Party we were very aware of the dissonance inside the Greens Party. I think that's why Sue Brandford had to leave. She couldn't water down her left wing ideals enough.

@lightweight the Greens Party is fundamentally a pro-market liberal economy party. The sooner they realise the capitalist infrastructure they embrace **is** the problem the better.

@duncan_lithgow as a side note, I wonder if the NZ Greens post on Mastodon as well as Twitter (which would be entirely aligned with their stated principles)... I haven't seen anything official... but that'd be an easy one to fix.

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