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You know what I reckon would be cool? If all the throngs of organisations and companies who claim to be open would actually establish themselves in the distributed, open source Fediverse. That'd be cool.

If they wanted to join this Mastodon instance, I'd be happy to approve their accounts - all they'd have to write in response to "why do you want an account on our server?" is "We're keen to walk the talk and stop being hypocrites". If they write that, they're in.

@lightweight

Hypocrite is written on the human soul; besides, mostly people aren't in the fediverse because they have no idea it exists.

@doctormo true. So we can inform them, so they no longer have that excuse. :)

@lightweight i think this might be in response to your linux conf au post?

Honestly, a lot of these decisions are to do with resources. And making pretty good decisions in the past about what to learn and do.

i'd put a lot of energy into using Free Software. But I'm a Free Software advocate, not a Linux guy. Politics, not technology for me.

@doctormo the fediverse post you responded to is a different thread, but along similar lines. The problem I'm railing against is the lack of sincere open intent. See davelane.nz/nethui-insight-ope Therein lies many opportunities for hypocrisy and we need to no go easy on it.

@doctormo as I see it, politics and technology are increasingly indistinguishable.

@lightweight

In actuality yes, but in motivation to sacrifice that can make all the difference.

I recently got ding from the Freedom conservancy's twitter (it was Bradley, I could tell 😛 ) about my using Stripe for payment processing in my LiberaPay account. It's not like there's tons of options out there as much as I'd love to use a Free Software bank 🤣

@doctormo I agree, re Stripe. I haven't found a FOSS-compatible option yet. Stripe seems the least bad option at present. Like you, I'm keen to find out otherwise, though! I'm sure the fediverse will be all a-buzz if one appears!

@selea just another reason I'm pleased I didn't adopt their service (and set up my own mail service, which, frankly, is superb).

@selea full credit, though, to the folks at Mailcow.email, as I use their dockerised install.

@lightweight

Running your own mailserver is really nice, so much freedom included

@selea yes, I've found it librating, and an opportunity to be generous to my friends. I host email for myself and many others. 3 MailCow instances, all about 2-3 years old. They are remarkable and inspiring technology, created by impressive and generous folks.

@lightweight @selea
Hi,
if you don't have skills for selfhosting things, what's the solution ?

@foxmask

You mean that you lack the skills? I doubt that to be honest.
Maybe you lack the time?

However, choosing the right ISP/Hosting Company is the key to success, the rest is basically use already existing solutions like iRedmail, Mailcow or Poste.io

@lightweight

@foxmask @selea follow howtos - the investment is miniscule, like a couple hours (max) of your time, and a few cents to set one up using a commodity Linux virtual server supplier and confirm it works, and if you keep running it, it's $20/month... I write lots of howtos: tech.oeru.org - you'll find similar elsewhere on the web. Before you know it, you'll wonder why people think it's so hard.

@foxmask @selea the key thing, though, is to ask the question, and then engage with the response! :) Let me know if you run into trouble!

@lightweight @selea
I don't have any problem for managing mail server, I meant, when people who doesn't know our universe, I'm not sure they will understand a word of "server/smtp/pop" and so on.
this is why they mostfly use yahoo gmail outloot or others horrible services like that.

@foxmask @selea yes. The level of tech understanding among 80% of society *all of whom depend on tech for their work and social lives* is extremely low. That's why I say we're living in a digital Dark Age right now. davelane.nz/darkage

@foxmask @selea it's up to people like us - their friends - to show them there's a different way, and to demonstrate that if it's crucial to us (i.e. those who know how to host it), it's probably at least as safe for them as the corporate options that cost lots of $$ and/or mine all their (and their correspondents'!) data...

@zleap @foxmask @selea that's always an option. The mailcow.email crew offer a managed service. But it costs $, because it requires their time and expertise. And doesn't depend on being able to exploit your data (and that of your correspondents).

@lightweight @foxmask @selea

GPG is a good way round people reading your e-mails providing the recipients also understand and use it.

@zleap @foxmask @selea yup, been using it with that vanishingly small sliver of my correspondents for the past 10-15 years :)

@lightweight @foxmask @selea

It would be good to know why less and less people are using it, so that can be addressed.

@zleap @foxmask @selea most people think email is totes secure. My bank does. I've had a long discussion with their head of online security. He didn't fill me with confidence.

@lightweight @foxmask @selea

Hmm opposite to my experience I have had e-mails where a long signature includes about e-mail not being secure.

Unless we get GnuPG or similar as part of basic IT training then people will think opposite extremes.

If banks signed their e-mail it would be much better and probably easier to spot scams

@zleap @foxmask @selea banks are generally run by people who don't get tech. My bank (in NZ) has a reasonably informed CTO (with whom I spoke) but he essentially said that proper security protocols are beyond them. He assured me they'd have a 'secure upload' facility 2 years ago. It's not there yet. The bank still routinely instructs people to sign documents (e.g. account signing authorities) on paper, scan, and email them as unencrypted attachments. They're about 20 years behind.

@lightweight @foxmask @selea

Yiou need to understand the issue so you can recruit the right people to help make things secure.

Weare short of cybersecurity experts here in the UK too.

@zleap @foxmask @selea the big problem I see is that the people whose job it is to find the 'right people' don't know how to identify a right person. It leads to poor decisions all around.

@lightweight @foxmask @selea

Indeed, as people have said here too much focus on bits of paper, not actual ability to do the job in many cases.
Box ticking does not seem to lead to the right outcomes.

@lightweight @zleap @foxmask @selea I think "time and expertise" are good reasons to pay $ for (unlike giving "the ability to exploit your data"). I personally feel confident in having self-hosted things to test and play with, but for critical things like email, with at least baseline security, certificates etc... not so much 😕

@miren @zleap @foxmask @selea fair enough. We all have to make that call for ourselves. Having worked for companies offering those services for money, I know that I'm as capable as the folks running lots of those systems, and I've got self-interest as well, so I'm happy to back myself in that role. :)

@lightweight @miren @foxmask @selea

Perhaps we need to provide good quality information so people can make their own decisions.

er

@miren @lightweight @foxmask @selea

I feel hhe same way I can set up a raspberry pi, sort of set up Apache or ngnix to serve basic web pages but doing all that securely is beyond me

@lightweight

Oh indeed!
I let my friends and their companies use the mailserver aswell, it does not cost anything extra for me and I get it back from them in other ways

and it is a great oppurtunity to test out new things in the SMTP-world

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