Facinating... Gmail is spam binning my self-hosted email despite reporting a 10/10 compliance with all relevant creds and that I'm not on any blacklists... Hard not to take this personally. **scratches chin

And when I say "fascinating" I really mean "you're a sack of assholes, Google".

@lightweight Hi, welcome to my world. I more and more find electronic services closing me out, mis-flagging, etc. Coordinated? My patterns just match tripwires? Who knows?

I'm just glad that (so far) it hasn't bled over to the banking and credit side of the world.

But I'm very much a self-hosted services kind of guy. Due originally to philosophy, but now also because it's the best defense.

@vandys @lightweight it's been the case with our email host and we haven't been able to change anything about it for years. We are just completely powerless in front of behemoths like Google.
Same sentiment even with an account on one of their products: our problem with a video on PlaySite never got a reply, and we were redirected to the community support forum, and no response there either.
To the tech behemoths, individuals are just one data point. That's how it feels to me right now.

@lightweight I don't think it's personal. I also get a 10/10, I've had my domain for 20+ years, but Gmail insists in classifying it as spam.

It's really sad that this is the state of email these days, and that there's almost nothing we can do.

@beto yeah, I agree it seems like there's too much power concentrated in too few (and very capricious & self-interested) hands... Which is why more of us need to host our own.

I would have liked to host my own email, since I have my own hardware in-house and #Yunohost includes an email server. Unfortunately all ISPs here block port 25. I know alternatives exist (VPN, VPS...) but considering the trouble you mention, I'm afraid this is an uphill battle I'm not prepared to partake in at this time... ☹️

@normandc fwiw, port 25 is strongly deprecated for mail - we should be using encrypted connections: 465 (fully SSL) or 587 (Start TLS). In my experience, those are not blocked...

@normandc @lightweight

I use to get a real unblocked IP, it's a nice alternative when your ISP blocks ports. But this wouldn't solve the problem of Gmail marking your emails as spam, unfortunately.

@normandc @lightweight @beto It took me so long to realize the reason why my mail server wasn’t working was just because my ISP said no.

@lightweight this one ofthe reasons i want to avoid self hosting email.

@lightweight particularly when i'll be starting with a domain. I've had some services not let me sign up due to that :(

@LovesTha I'm not familiar with domains or why they'd be discriminated against...

@lightweight they were pushed around 2000 for Australian Individuals. They didn't take off.

Apparently they have a high % of bad emails coming from them.

@lightweight @LovesTha

I personally think that the next move for personally hosted email server should be network overlays. I2P; FreeNet; Tor etc.

Moving to a more privacy focused platform that can still support the good old Postfix, retaining backward compatibility, while putting it in a space where Big Data will have a lot more difficulty controlling the narrative and gathering identifiable data.

@nick @lightweight It's sort of where I like the idea of mailpile. As a mail client (with a web interface) it could implement the good new things while giving people a way to still interact with legacy users.

I want a federated signal for email.

Which VC do I need to pitch that to so I can found a company to start it? (Sorry, I still enjoy being paid)

@LovesTha hmm - that's what'd make me rebel and set up a mail server. I suppose I'm just contrary that way :)

@lightweight i agree, but when i send an email i'd like it to be received

@lightweight @LovesTha A few years ago I stopped having a landline phone, and relied completely on mobile phones.

Perhaps its time to start doing the same to email. Get ahead of the curve, don't wait for "everyone" to join in, just get on with something else.

Not quite sure what that would be, however ...

@yojimbo @lightweight Deeper in a related thread I just asked for a 'federated signal for email'.

I'm not certain exactly what that would be, but I think it's the tool you want.

@LovesTha @lightweight Yeah, basically ... :-) But with a few handwaves I guess, around what constitutes central authorities and so on. Email via uucp bang paths was (not) fun ...

@yojimbo @LovesTha hah! Been there, done that. Doesey-doeing with a creaky old DG machine back in the early Egressive days. Painful.

@yojimbo @LovesTha I did that a few years back, starting about 2014 or so, building my own email infrastructure... but my 'roll-your-own' solution, despite working well, had a lot of minor annoyances and was a bit brittle. Also, it didn't do a good job with DKIM... Eventually, I discovered MailCow, bit the bullet, and move to it. Now I run 3 instances and haven't looked back. Easy to maintain, solid as, complete solution. (I run the Dockerised deployment).

@lightweight @LovesTha There are some interesting conversations going around, talking about the different "sizes" of conversations, and the mechanisms for transmitting them. Like why Google Wave was interesting, for example.

real-time chat sends "a line" and sometimes shows individual characters ...
this platform/birdsite is sending "a paragaph or two" / also source code version checkins
email is useful for "several paragraphs + copies/attached documents" - also ticketing systems tend to work well here
blogging is "more formal articles"

I'd be interested in UI approaches to handle all these sorts of conversational topics in "the same place" (i.e. "the same namespace"), rather than what we have now, where I need to copy/paste things from one to another, reformat, hunt for timestamps ...

@yojimbo @lightweight @LovesTha - I think that's why I like Pleroma. It's capable of almost everything on that list, including attachments; chat and Markdown. With its default upper limit of 5000 characters, and the Markdown editing, you can easily post blogs as well. It's definitely not perfect, but it's something ☺️

@nick @LovesTha @lightweight Part of the problem with a proliferation of tools is 'search' ... I think I remember something, and I have to search multiple tools independently to see if any of them match.

Possibly unifying that would provide a big benefit, even if the various front-ends/tools were separate?

"text" is the common medium, so a reverse-index like xapian or lucene might help.

@yojimbo @nick @lightweight Just setting up export from all platforms into one place to search would be really nice.

@lightweight @yojimbo MVP for it is way too big for me to contemplate jumping in without a bucket of money.

@LovesTha @lightweight You're welcome to bring a bucket of money :-)

I don't think we're at MVP stage yet! I'd like to just think about the possibilities for a while.

@yojimbo @lightweight i'm very happy do chat about what a great priduct could be, and would love to be surprised if a mvp is reachable

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